Draft Order

[David-Montreal]

Does not matter that I beat NY on the road in the playoffs... an 8-6 Wild Card team does not draft behind two 11-3 Division winners!!!!!!

The Overall winner goes last, the Championship loser goes 2nd to last.  The rest is by record.

[Niki]

David, this is teh system that has been used for years in teh FWL. Play off teams will have spot 11 till 18. 11-14 for the teams that lose in the WC games, 15-16 for conf championship loser, 17 FWL bowl loser and 18 for the overall winner.

If I am correct this is the system that has been used over the years, so I think it the best to keep it this way

[giaraid]

OK then explain how if the #1 and #2 seeds both lost in the first round the #1 seed is still drafting before the #2 seed.....See NY and SA, he was seeded higher based on division record and we both lost our first game so I should have the better draft pick.

[David-Montreal]

Then the system is f*ck#d up.

Never paid any attention to this as I never knew this was the system or I would ahve said something about it a long time ago.

The final 2 teams are the only ones that get altered!!!

In my league,  I do not follow these rules, nor does the NFL.

[David-Montreal]

Last year, the Jets beat San Diego, and still drafted AHEAD of them.

[Niki]

  can be wrong but if this is the way it is going here, what has the NFL or any other fantasy league to do with it  It would be wrong to chance the way since it is now the 14th time we did it this way and if you chance it do it after the draft so everyone is aware of it before any draft picks will be traded!

we already discussed the draft list in this topic:

http://fwl.pocketplane.net/index.php?topic=329.0

I based in that topic that NY was over SA based on the American conference Tie break but looking closer at it I am wrong (ands so is taht overview) since SA beat NY those two has to be switched from position. 13) New York and 14) San Antonio

[David-Montreal]

From Paul:

"(Note sometimes the software does get the order wrong, if you have evidence that your team should be placed higher then show me the NFL rules and why your team should be higher and I will look into it) "

So... based on the fact that the Jets were worse than San Diego record-wise, and the Jets won, and then drafted ahead of them (to use a more recent example), this is your proof.

 

[jcompton-Orlando]

But it is true that we in the FWL have always seeded the playoff teams based on their performance in the playoffs and not based on their overall record.

If you'd like to plead poverty to get the system changed, then by all means, make me laugh.

[Mario ADK]

the PCs draft list is very controversial sometimes.

i would suggest we all agree to use NFL-standard-rules when it comes down to draft-order:

http://www.nfl.com/standings/tiebreakers

TIE-BREAKING PROCEDURE FOR SELECTION MEETING
If two or more clubs are tied in the selection order, the strength-of-schedule tie breaker is applied, subject to the following exceptions for playoff clubs:

1. The Super Bowl winner is last and the Super Bowl loser next-to-last.
2. Any non-Super Bowl playoff club involved in a tie shall be assigned priority within its segment below that of non-playoff clubs and in the order that the playoff clubs exited from the playoffs. Thus, within a tied segment a playoff club that loses in the Wild-Card game will have priority over a playoff club that loses in the Divisional playoff game, which in turn will have priority over a club that loses in the Conference Championship game. If two tied clubs exited the playoffs in the same round, the tie is broken by strength of schedule.

If any ties cannot be broken by strength of schedule, the divisional or conference tie breakers, whichever are applicable, are applied. Any ties that still exist are broken by a coin flip.

i am not sure if i get it right but if i understand the official regulations right in that case it would be:
18) FWL-Bowl-winner
17) runner-up
16,15) conference drop-outs (order by strengh of schedule)
14,13,12,11) WC-dropouts (order by strengh of schedule)
10 to 1) rest (order by W/L, in a tie: order by strengh of schedule)

i think if we use NFL-standard-rusles we have a valid base to go on....

[Paul-London]

I agree that this is the way to do it...

14th FWL Bowl winner
13th FWL Bowl loser
12th Championship team loser (the one with the better record)
11th Championship team loser (the one with the worst record between the two)

Then the wildcard teams

This is the way we have been doing it since Day 1.

I think we need to have a 'sticky' with some of the rules.   Eg for the FWL Bowl....

The team with the better record hosts the FWL Bowl

BUT if a team is a wildcard team with a 11-3 record and the other participant is a 9-5 divisional winner then the divisional winner always hosts the final.  Its like a perk to host the final , that you have the best record  in the league.

But yes as Niki says we have to swap around SA / NY but the rest are correct

[Mario ADK]

I agree that this is the way to do it...

WRONG WRONG WRONG.....what you pointed out is NOT the way NFL-procedures work, Paul.... and we are going to have these discussions almost every year. You are mixing NFL-playoff-tiebreaking rules with NFL-draft-order-rules.

a) W/L-records determines PLAYOFF-SPOTS and HOME-ADVANTAGE
b) the stage where a PO-team drops out and strengh of schedule determine the DRAFT-ORDER.We are talking about the DRAFT ORDER here....

Is there any reason not to switch to NFL-rules???
Please read the whole(!) text in the link http://www.nfl.com/standings/tiebreakers and let us simply adopt NFL-rules in order to have a clear path to go on......

As a conclusion the order according to NFL-rules should be
18) FWL-Bowl-winner
17) runner-up
16,15) conference drop-outs (order by strengh of schedule)
14,13,12,11) WC-dropouts (order by strengh of schedule)

[jcompton-Orlando]

I agree that this is the way to do it...

WRONG WRONG WRONG.....what you pointed out is NOT the way NFL-procedures work, Paul.... and we are going to have these discussions almost every year. You are mixing NFL-playoff-tiebreaking rules with NFL-draft-order-rules.

So are you, I'm afraid.

Aside from dropping the two Super Bowl teams to the bottom, the NFL doesn't care when you exited the playoffs.

http://football.about.com/od/miscinformation/a/detdraftorder.htm

Presumably this is, in part, because their playoff structure has a bye in it and it's unclear if "losing your first game in the wild card round" is better or worse than "losing your first game in the divisional round." As we do not have a playoff bye, we have always used playoff finish (ranked by overall record) as the draft order determiner.

Is there any reason not to switch to NFL-rules???

Again, because we don't have a playoff bye, I think it's perfectly reasonable to look to playoff finish order as the way to sort playoff teams in the draft.

It's true that in the past we didn't use strength of schedule as the first tiebreaker for equal schedules, and that was a mistake, and we should now (and I believe we are.)

[Paul-London]

So what should the draft order be again then ?!

[jcompton-Orlando]

Heh, well, that's ultimately up to you. Are you saying we're going to stick with our FWL-traditional playoff finish system, or do you want to switch to using the pure NFL system?

[Mario ADK]

Jason, did you read the OFFICIAL text on NFL.com.

If two or more clubs are tied in the selection order, the strength-of-schedule tie breaker is applied, subject to the following exceptions for playoff clubs:

1. The Super Bowl winner is last and the Super Bowl loser next-to-last.
2. Any non-Super Bowl playoff club involved in a tie shall be assigned priority within its segment below that of non-playoff clubs and in the order that the playoff clubs exited from the playoffs.  Thus, within a tied segment a playoff club that loses in the Wild-Card game will have priority over a playoff club that loses in the Divisional playoff game, which in turn will have priority over a club that loses in the Conference Championship game. If two tied clubs exited the playoffs in the same round, the tie is broken by strength of schedule.

If any ties cannot be broken by strength of schedule, the divisional or conference tie breakers, whichever are applicable, are applied. Any ties that still exist are broken by a coin flip.

ahem....
i am european, you are american (gosh!) so you clearly understand what the OFFICIAL NFL-procedures are like and maybe it is me who has this language barrier.

But you can convince me that my official link is rubbish and - for any reason - your unofficial hobby-link is not......

[jcompton-Orlando]

Actually, no, I didn't, because I've been unable to find the draft rules on NFL.com. Where is it?

[Mario ADK]

a couple of posts below.....

[jcompton-Orlando]

Ah, ah, I see. My brain keeps seeing "selection meeting" and not translating it to "draft." Yes, there it is, right at the bottom of the page.

So it looks like the NFL does what we've always done after all.

[Mario ADK]

basically yes.
with the official SoS-tiebreaker we are NFL-like anyway....

Case closed (at least i hope so):

1) Raleigh-Durham
============
2) Orlando
3) Birmingham
4) Scotland
5) Barcelona
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6) Rhein
7) Berlin
============
Mexico
9) Paris
10) Sacramento
============
11) Amsterdam
12) London
13) New York
14) San Antonio
============
15) Montreal
16) Austria
============
17) Ohio
============
18) Frankfurt

[jcompton-Orlando]

Anyway. It would seem that Amsterdam would be the earliest playoff pick, 9-5 tie with London but weaker SOS:

AMS SOS: .467 opp win %
LON SOS: .478 opp win %

NY and SA have 11-3 records but NY picks ahead:

NY SOS: .421 opp win %
SA SOS: .455 opp win %

And of course Montreal had a worse overall record than Austria.

So, the bottom of the draft order is:

AMS
LON
NY
SA
MON
AUS
OHIO
FRA

(yes, Mario posted first, but I wanted to include the calculations.)