This seasons draftees

[Mario ADK]

My 5 cents after having a quick look at the draftees:

 

[Paul-London]

I dont think its a terrible crop.  Probably not as strong as some past years but its the same in the NFL.

Some of the DE's are very very fast so thats probably the strength of the draft.  Yes theres no outstanding instant starters at QB perhaps but theres a wealth of QB's in the draft already.

Its very difficult to get the right mixture of great/normal/half decent players in a draft.  Some years we've had way too many good players, other years we've had some off drafts.  I wouldnt say this is the best draft crop but its not the worst.

[Mark-skyhawks]

Well from looking at the rookies it seams that there is no one outstanding player.
So if you have got lets say the 9th overall pick you might have just a good a player
as the overall number one pick but I am not sure if that is a good thing.

[Paul-London]

Well i havent done any extra work on them as i received them this morning, as my work is finishing today i might find some time to give some players a bit extra

I do get your points, in most years numbers 1-15 are outstanding and it goes down from there

I'll make some changes to them and post them later then

[Paul-London]

By the way to anyone else i'm not just changing them because of any 'pressure' from Mark or Mario who both have high draft choices

I wanted to make some changes to the players but today was quite busy, now its gone a bit quiet i'll try and make the changes i wanted to before i leave today

[Paul-London]

I have now improved the players i wanted to, must admit didnt take as long as i first thought

Like i say i wanted to do this always but i didnt think i would have enough time, i didnt just modify players to be better just because of Mark / Mario.

I wanted some good players to come in and start instantly and others to develop. As i'm away from later today till Jan 2nd i wanted to make sure the rookie crop was how i wanted it so people will be developing a list and we're all set when i get back.

There are some good instant starters there, one or two decent HB's, some good QB's, some good defensive players including one or two very good DB'.s

I would like to see more ints in the FWL (hence some good CB's) and i read a report last month saying if Brett Favre doesnt retire the Pack might send Aaron Rogers to NFLE.  That would be huge as Rogers is obviously a 1st round pick, so thats one reason why his skills are very high. 

I have my list already of sleepers, 5 positive and 3 negative.  These are not normally high round players (eg rounds 1-2) but later rounds.

I wont be adjusting the draft list anymore as like i keep saying i'll be away and i want people to have in their mind/list what players they want for the draft so it wont be re-adjusted

Have a great Xmas and New Year

Cheers

[David-Montreal]

Nikki and I are taking time off next season, and I would like for Mario  to step up and do the draft next year.  With his knowledge, reputation and all of that, I think you would do a fabulous job.  Think of it as a Christmas present from him to all of us. 

I actually gave the draft to Paul at zero hour and told him he might want to spike it a little as it was bland... however, the "lower" end rookies were not pieces of crap either.

Anyway, enjoy... perhaps you can be the one who gets Walter Kack Kack.

[Mario ADK]

Paul,
that was unfair. I never said anything but: 
To say that is "putting pressure" on you is unfair. But yes i agree with niki that the fact that #18 FRA might get a similar quality as #1 RAL is (EDIT: WAS) very irritating. And yes the fact that i traded the shit out of me (and you are the one who is always encouraging trades) in order to get high picks and all i find (EDIT: FOUND) out is that #16/18 might get the same quality like #3/5 is very very frustrating and will keep (EDIT: MIGHT HAVE KEPT) me from going that far next season (I even traded Jackson!)

David,
i really really appreciate what you and Niki are doing, BUT: I asked Paul several times wether i could help but the point was that he said i needed the software to help inputting players (and i do not have the software). But if there is another way i will help (i found this programm where you could converts xls-files into the software, maybe that helps???). i could invest one hour a night and i would like to do that to speed things up.
Regarding the quality of players i do not blame you or Niki as i know that Paul usually picked some favourites and made the to excellent ones (which i assume he did not do (EDIT: JUST AFTER THE FIRST ANNOUNCEMENT OF THE PLAYERS RATING) this time.....EDIT: BUT DID IT AFTERWARDS). But yes: As we still got 2 Weeks left i hoped that Paul invests more than 0 hours to create the future superstars.... (EDIT: HE FINALLY DID)

[Mario ADK]

oh. just read that Paul said he improved players afterwards and i did not yet look at them. if my post below is "wrong" now i apologise (see the EDITs) but i am under pressure as i am heading off to finish the christmas tree to give the kids a nice surprise and my wife is waiting for me and just headed in for the fwl-page for just a couple of seconds.....

merry x-mas!

[JH-SanAntonio]

"i could invest one hour a night and i would like to do that to speed things up."

Sweet.  If you start now, you'll have plenty of time to figure out 400 names and ability score lines.  BTW, if I can't get a quality guy with my picks next year, I'll bitch and moan about it.


"the fact that i traded the shit out of me in order to get high picks and all i find out is that #16/18 might get the same quality like #3/5 is very very frustrating and will keep me from going that far next season"

Trading for draft picks (which is almost all I trade for, BTW) before the lists come out is ALWAYS a gamble. If you want certain quality, trade for existing players.  How did you not know this?


"I would like to see more ints in the FWL (hence some good CB's)"

INTs aren't low because the CBs aren't good enough.  They're low because most owners are choosing to spend TC points on DI on their QBs, reducing the number of risky/poor throws made by the QBs, and choosing offenses with conservative passing plans. In fact, cranking up the DBs in general will tend to have the opposite effect- the high-DI QBs will see throwing to WRs as risky, and throw underneath to RB/TE outlet guys being covered by LBs, which will reduce the amount of time the ball is in the air (lessening the chance a defender can react to it and INT) and leave guys with much lower AG/HA (the LBs) trying to snatch the ball.


"I have my list already of sleepers, 5 positive and 3 negative"

My standard yearly rant: how are negative sleepers a value-add?  What do they enhance?  Sleepers are great for lending a bit a value to late round picks (the 6th-8th rounders many teams wont ever sign because they need only 5-6 guys per year, on average).  Increasing the value of 7/8s is nice, adding to the "currency" of the league.  Slapping a few random draft choices with negatives does... what, again?


JH

[David-Montreal]

Well... I just did a quick count, and figured out there are 20 'top picks'... however that includes 1 QB.  I guess if you count QB Campbell, it is 21.

The 640+ overall DB's are bad.  If historically the problem is too much defense, then certainly you dont want to add 5 or 6 of these guys.  Not talking about specific abilities, but overall, caps I try to do when rookies come in is about 600 (DBs), 580 (LB and DE).  For QBs, HB and WR (650), and OL (640).  Not an exact science, but if you do this every year and cycle everyone through, I think it gets the results we want.

Jason is correct on QB's re: DI.  It would be nice to see a QB with 21 TDs and 14 picks, however I think if you ever "mastered" these numbers league wide, other dominos would fall (lower running games, more sacks, or something).  It is evolution.

[Mario ADK]

Jason, in fact you are right, trading for picks before the draftees are announced is always a gamble. But i hope you understand that i evaluated the draftees from my point of view - which is based on 2 top-5-picks. And given that i expected more top-talents and was disappointed......

regarding your answer to my offering to input players:  I have a full-time-job and a family with 2 little kids with whom i like to spend time with. But i offered and still i offer my time to ease the highly aprreciated work of David and Niki.

If you spend time for this job i am sure it will be highly appreciated as well. But you have to spend more than 2hrs a day otherwise you might get ridiculous comments by someone?

Otherwise simply stop posting such foolish comments when it comes to help those who invest their time like David and Niki.

[Mario ADK]

Not an exact science, but if you do this every year and cycle everyone through, I think it gets the results we want.

David i agree, all in all it is a balanced thing. But anyway the "spice" is Pauls selections of top-prospects which he - as far as i know - adds or edits after you have finished your job and hand the file over to him.

Good job done from you and Niki.

[JH-SanAntonio]

"How much time did YOU spend inputting players? Sweet, indeed...."

I didn't come on the forums and whine about them.  Trying to divert unwanted attention from yourself seems to be a hobby for you.



"trading for picks before the draftees are announced is always a gamble. But i hope you understand that i evaluated the draftees from my point of view - which is based on 2 top-5-picks."

... but if other people had the picks you'd be OK with the draft?  Maybe you should clarify your point here.  Some years have good drafts, some years are weak... but if Austria has a couple of high picks the players should be elevated?  



"And given that - i expected more top-talents but i have to live with it."

So gracious after you whine and "acceptable" players are added.  So good that they are better than previous first round picks with 3 or 4 camps on them... good work.



"And still i offer my time to ease the work of David and Niki."

It would have taken precisely 0 seconds not to post about your displeasure over the lack of instant-win players you'd be able to draft and accepted the work they put into it.  As it stands you've criticized their work and Paul's already.  



"Good job done from you and Niki."

An amusing addition given your original commentary on that job:

"My 5 cents after having a quick look at the draftees:    "

[Mario ADK]

I think you are smart enough to understand that we have 2 total different topics here, aren´t you?

infact as you mixed up those two items i am not sure whether you fully understand, so there´s a little help for you:

1) The tons of work of inputting appr. 400 players.
2) The level of the top-prospects.

==> 1)
Offer your help or simply shut up commenting other persons offers.
Did i criticise Jasons and Nikis effort to put in 400 players? No.
Do i appreciate the time they spend to input those players? Yes.

==> 2)
Did i "whine" and did i ask anyone to raise any players ratings? No.
Was i disappointed when i first took a look at the draftees? Yes.
Would i have looked at the draftees differnently if i had later picks instead of high picks? Yes.
Did i yet look at those added players? No, not in detail.
Did i criticise Paul for not raising players? No.
Do i aprreciate that he indeed raised them afterwards. Yes.

Do i think you have a Kreiner-paranoia? Yes.
Do i care? No. But it starts to get boring sometimes....

[JH-SanAntonio]

This thread gets more amusing with every post!

First, I must commend you on your amazing talent in backtracking and editing previous comments you've made. Bravo!


"My 5 cents after having a quick look at the draftees:  "
"I think you are smart enough to understand that we have 2 total different topics here, aren´t you? "

I'm sorry.  Your scintillating opening comment apparently was possessed of dimensions beyond the capacity of my feeble mind to comprehend.  It looked to me as though you were criticizing the draft.


"My 5 cents after having a quick look at the draftees:  "
"Offer your help or simply shut up commenting other persons offers."

I don't think I could come up with something to top those two, so I'll refrain.


"My 5 cents after having a quick look at the draftees:  "
"i find out is that #16/18 might get the same quality like #3/5 is very very frustrating and will keep me from going that far next season"
"Did i "whine" and did i ask anyone to raise any players ratings? No."

Jeez, you don't leave me any room for witty commentary here, either!



"(I even traded Jackson!)"

Do you really want to bring this up?


"Do i aprreciate that he indeed raised them afterwards. Yes."

Ah yes, that heady feeling of a job well done.


"Do i think you have a Kreiner-paranoia? Yes. "

Paranoia: A psychotic disorder characterized by delusions of persecution with or without grandeur, often strenuously defended with apparent logic and reason.

Show me a comment I've made where I've misquoted you or assumed you were directing a comment at me when you weren't.  Perhaps we are applying this label to the wrong person....?


"i am not sure whether you fully understand, so there´s a little help for you:"

...Or perhaps I'm simply too stupid to understand

[Mario ADK]

I WOULD have said:
"Jason, if you are not capable of following a discussion please do not comment and don´t dig yourself a whole deeper and deeper every time you post."

But in fact it is christmas time - the time of love and forgiveness - so i do NOT say the above, but instead i wish to ALL of the FWL-community peaceful days and may you have a happy and successful year ahead of you.

I am off for some nice days with family and friends and without FWL.

Yours,
Mario Kreiner

[David-Montreal]

However you do say it above - sneaking it in.

[JH-SanAntonio]

If it weren't Christmas, I'd post the following...


"Jason, if you are not capable of following a discussion please do not comment and don't dig yourself a whole deeper and deeper every time you post."

Are you referring to the "Mario-places-his-own-sense-of-entitlement-before-overall-league-balance" discussion, or the "Mario-gripes-about-draft-quality-then-reverses-himself-and-edits-his-previous-posts" discussion?  I think I've followed those just fine.

As far as the holes I'm digging go, they're a defense mechanism.  If I didn't prepare storage facilities for the flood of asinine BS you post I'd be drowning in it.


...But it's Christmas, "so I do NOT say the above".  I'll wax Dickensian instead, and select a quote from A Christmas Carol: "God bless us, everyone!"*

I hope Mario and I are keeping everyone entertained with our highly enlightened conversations.  If you'd like to leave a tip, we accept VISA, travelers' checks, and draft picks.

JH



*bet you thought I'd choose "This boy is Ignorance. This girl is Want. Beware them both, and all of their degree, but most of all beware this boy, for on his brow I see that written which is Doom, unless the writing be erased."  But as you can see, I didn't.  After all, it's Christmas!

[Aztecs]

The draft looks pretty good to me.